世界人居

在2023世界人居环境可持续发展大会访谈中，AECOM景观董事、ASLA国际实践专业实践网络主席、上海景观论坛联合创始人李程（Lee Parks）先生分享了他在西安小雁塔项目中的经验和见解。他强调，在中国传统历史街区改造中，最大的挑战是克制过度设计，恢复空间的完整性并去除视觉上影响城市环境质量的城市元素。此外，他还提出了对可持续发展和人居环境的看法，认为环境应放在首位。对于风景园林专业的学生，他建议保持初心，热爱设计，并注重在现实世界中的实践。

西安建筑科技大学王晶懋老师采访AECOM景观董事Lee Parks先生

王老师

Good morning. It's an honor to have you here for this interview. Let's make a brief self-introduction.

早上好。非常荣幸能邀请您接受这次采访。让我们做一个简短的自我介绍吧。

Lee Parks

Thanks, my name is Lee Parks. I am currently the Chair of the International Practice Professional Practice Network for ASLA and co-founder of the Shanghai Landscape Forum. I have lived and worked in China since 2001. As Executive Director and Landscape Practice Leader for AECOM in Shanghai, I currently hold the post of the Global Technical Practice Group Leader for Landscape Architecture.

谢谢，我叫Lee Parks。我目前是ASLA国际实践专业实践网络的主席，也是上海景观论坛的联合创始人。我从2001年起就开始在中国生活和工作了。作为上海AECOM的执行董事和景观实践组长，我目前担任全球风景园林技术实践小组组长。

 王老师

Thanks, we know you have participated in the completion of Xi 'an Small Wild Goose Pagoda Project. What do you think is the biggest challenge you have encountered in the renovation project of Chinese traditional historic district? In the collaborative dialogue between the new and the old, the traditional historic district space has been reshaped and revitalized. What experience can you share with us?

您参与完成了西安小雁塔项目，面对中国传统历史街区改造项目，您觉得遇到的最大的挑战是什么？在新与旧的协同对话中，实现了传统性历史街区空间的现代重塑与活力复兴，有什么经验可以和大家分享？

Lee Parks

I think the biggest challenge is trying to hold-back on over designing. To practice restraint, to simplify, to hold on to what matters such as visual corridors, large trees, cultural relics, etc and restore space integrity, remove clutter and mitigate urban elements that visually impact the quality of the urban environment. The dialogue between old and new is to extract or take inspiration from the old and represent in new form for today’s lifestyle and functional needs.

我认为最大的挑战是克制过度设计。约束、简化、保留视觉廊道、大树、文物等，恢复空间的完整性，去除杂乱，缓解视觉上影响城市环境质量的城市元素。新旧之间的对话是从旧的中提取或汲取灵感，并以新的形式表现当今的生活方式和功能需求。

王老师

The South Square of the Small Wild Goose Pagoda is adjacent to Vermilion Bird Street, and the street and the South Square engage in such a spatial and historical dialog, how does the design reflect this?

小雁塔南广场紧邻朱雀大街，大街和南广场进行了这样的一个空间和历史对话，设计是如何体现的？

Lee Parks: The dialogue between space and history aimed to restore visual connections, inclusiveness and openness. Opening views, access and interpretation of culture and relics. It is reflected in the design through removal of solid boundaries, celebrating the visual axis to the pagoda and welcoming local people to the square for daily life.

空间与历史之间的对话旨在恢复视觉联系，包容性和开放性。开放的视野，进入和解读文化和文物。它体现在设计中，通过消除实体边界，庆祝小雁塔的视觉轴，欢迎当地人到广场进行日常生活。

王老师

What is your view and understanding of sustainability and human settlements? How can sustainability be concretely translated into practical projects?

您对于可持续发展和人居环境的看法和理解是什么？可持续发展如何具体落到实践项目中？

Lee Parks

My view is inspired more by the scientific community and the climate change and biodiversity emergency. Rather than the UN model of Economy, Society and Environment being of equal weight and competing interests, I agree with climate scientists that sustainable development should be a hierarchy with environment first.

我的观点更多地是受到科学界、气候变化和生物多样性紧急情况的启发。我同意气候科学家的观点，即可持续发展应该是一个基于环境的层次结构，而不是联合国的经济、社会和环境模式具有同等的权重和相互竞争的利益。

王老师

In the new economic situation, what are the qualities and professional abilities that students in the landscape architecture major should have in order to gain the corresponding advantages of jobs, or pursue successful in the market competition?

在新的经济形势下，风景园林专业的学生应该具备哪些素质和专业能力，以便在就业中获得相应优势，或在市场上成功竞争？

Lee Parks

It's a very challenging time for landscape graduates. I remember when I was studying in the UK in the 1990s, it was very difficult to find a job, I sent over 80 resumes, but they were all returned. For the young people today, they are facing the same problem. But I think, they should keep the original intention and stay at it, the salary is not important, the important thing is to love design, do not forget the original intention. 

我还记得1990年我在英国学习时，那时候找工作很困难，我投递了18份简历，但是都被退回了。对于现在的年轻人来说，他们面临着同样的问题。但我认为，他们应该保持初心并且为之付出行动，薪水不重要，重要的是热爱设计，不忘初心。

王老师

In terms of training students, how could educationalist and teachers strengthen the students’ development of professional competence? Do you think it is necessary for us to cultivate their ability not only the design, but also the project planning, or operation and maintenance management, impact assessment?

在培养学生方面，教育从业者应该从哪些方面在增强这方面的素质拓展，或者专业能力的培养？

Lee Parks

When I was a teach at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, I paid more attention to training students to practice in the real world. So it's not just the design, the understanding of the planning context, the global issues, the metropolitan issues, the understanding of the land use and the planning context for landscape, and then really training them to convince others of their ideas, in reality. They present the vision and positioning of the design so that they can justify these designs, so it is very important to train them in real time.

当我在上海交通大学当老师时，我更加重视培养学生在现实世界中的实践。所以不仅仅是设计，对于规划语境的理解，即全球问题大都市问题对土地利用和规划语境景观的理解，然后真正训练他们说服他人相信他们的想法，在现实中。他们提出设计的愿景和定位以便他们能够证明这些设计的合理性，因此对他们进行现实时间培训是非常重要的。

王老师

Thank for your interview and your suggestions, Mr. Lee Parks.

感谢您接受采访和提供的建议，李程先生。